Femininjas

The transcript from the Femininjas Trans Day of Remembrance debrief are here.

Tues December 8 2009 at Spartacus Books, Vancouver

Present: Raven, Myriam, Sam, Penelope, Gwen, Tash, Telyn, Kate, Véronique, and Beth

Kat: go round?

Telyn: we should just go round find out what people are interested in talking about

Kat: do you want to start?

Telyn: interested in talking about this because I was involved in the event at the very last minute – do you want to talk tonight — etc. it didn’t go down quite the way I expected it to go down. I’m interested in talking about /having a conversation about what happened to cause things to happen the way they did and ways in which and if there’s anything we want to avoid  -  specifics: I’m a a bit of a shit disturber -activism I like talking about controversial stuff sometimes but I don’t like to bring it up. I really have…. I remember being in the audience feeling a couple times in the audience — am I talking too much? — I think maybe the issues that I sort of felt — I remember… I sort of felt I gave this talk about sort of like like mainstream trans activism and the way that goes and a couple of things after I heard speeches from folks that were involved in specific political parties that said things that I was annoyed about — and then we all remember the bit where god was brought up… I was happy that happened I felt that dialog occurred on the spot and on their behalf I was hurt on their behalf that something that they expected

Kate – I just want to talk about who had been outreached to previous to the event organizer -  which organizations /people were asked to be at the event and who wasn’t – and I want to talk about whose voice I heard on stage — it was supposed to be a trans memorial service and there were lots of non-trans speakers who were there for their own means. I want to talk about who wasn’t there and why.

Beth: gave a speech:

-Bill Siksay: speech ok

-Hedy Fry, ok in principal to political speeches

-Rev. Catherine: not ignorance. I  left before the minister spoke. Left during the Hedy Fry one.  The opening, the thanking people who had donated, the stopping at stoplights.  Not thinking that the politics, to show solidarity, why was space given to a letter, the point is to remember the dead, and to remember the dead.  Not a safe space to remember them. I don’t feel like we did.

Raven – I guess for me a lot of what was presented could be interesting in different contexts, but in the context of what was happening in that space was inappropriate. I’m interested in hearing what a politician has to say, but not at a memorial service. I’m interested in hearing someone with a religious perspective speak, but not at a memorial service. A different TDoR I attended felt more like a memorial and less like a platform. For a memorial itself it didn’t feel like that. Representation, I think it’s often been an issue as to who can attend. And I think it’s…. a lot of different things that work together.

Véronique  – I was surprised at who was able to speak – I’m getting less cynical as I get older –I’m not at all easy to offend. I was one of the people helping to keep marchers on the sidewalk – I liked the candlelight parade – it seemed pretty respectful – I really liked Telyn’s talk  -  she reminded us of stuff that was good to remember. Other identities get passed over. I don’t remember what Hedy Fry wrote but she’s one of queer people’s strongest allies in Parliament and I don’t mind listening to what she said. Bill Siksay is our strongest ally. He’s got bills adding trans people to lists of hate crimes. He is really important to us. I don’t know if he’ll get those bills passed, but he’s working for us. I guess the last thing – I don’t want to sit here too long– I assume that the minister was invited – as an invited person. She really didn’t know her audience-  she should have known that, she should have known what kind of people she’d be speaking to. I suppose there’s nothing wrong with someone getting up to respond to her. I felt bad for her when that other speaker stood up and talked, I hope she wasn’t in the room. I felt that the person who stood up at the end insulted her. It seemed bad that she was hurt like that.

Kate – I don’t think people should inherently be given respect when they disrespect a community that they’re not a part of. The message she was sending – what came to mind mind – was go back home, go back to the people who punched you in the face, etc — and I was thinking no, you don’t go back with compassion, you deal with it in other ways.

Kat: I found out afterward that she was from Texas – she didn’t of

Kate – I don’t understand why we should legitimize cisgendered cissexed presence in our community – why should we be comfortable with this presence

Myriam-  lots of different faiths in queer community – why was someone from a certain faith, lots of people in that room are from different faiths, it wasn’t inclusive, if you consider the context and history, giving the reverend room to speak was dangerous, just if we’d gotten a rabbi/imam to speak. I was don’t care if people from certain parties are amazing advocates/etc if it’s a day of remembrance, that’s not a space where people can be given time to talk from a specific group

Tash – hormones are making me super crazy and depressed. I really have to give it to Kat for pulling this off on her own. I’m glad this space today is available so I can process this and I’m glad this space has been given. One of the reasons that I pulled back from helping with the march was that I wanted to have the kids there and I didn’t want to start crying in front of my kids, there were points where I really wanted to start crying. I thought what Telyn said was great. Bill Siksay came in late – he didn’t even see the march – he didn’t read off a name. I can see why it would be important to have politicians there, but, you know….

Hedy Fry’s thing reminded me of how people accept Oscars with a video…. would have rather seen Jenny Kwan, Libby Davies, but  marching not speaking. I think Siksay’s an awesome ally but it’s just not the right place.

Honestly when the minister started speaking I spaced out, woke up for the middle class stuff, was triggering for me. Liked what Barric had to say. there was mention when we were planning that we’d have grief counsellors on hand. That’s where Kathryn came in. I would have preferred to have many many g.c.’s there to help process. They’re supposed to be there if people start freaking out and crying.

Beth – omg the ‘you’re next’ comment

Brooke – omg, I know

Raven – we should have been taking more space in the march, I understand why people don’t the reasons and stuff, I was disappointed with that, where there was the thanking of the  VPD I was wanting to leave, Myriam helped convince me not to leave. Didn’t like the letter reading.

Kate – [to Telyn] – I called you that day you remember, I said I wasn’t going to go  -  I was worried it was going to be a TDoR without sex-work-phobia analysis, racism analysis – I want to be productive in my critique, not just this was bad this was bad this was bad. In my ultimate vision for TDoR I’d like to see speakers from Vandu (Vancouver drug user’s association) or ex-inmates folks who actually have…  just the location worried me…  my vision for TDoR is a space where people that appear homeless and so forth can come in – the space was in a university and had security guards walking around

Véronique — Bill was late because he was doing his job in Ottawa all day and had been up forever. Cops only referred to because they brought in 2 to keep parade going.

Beth: Theme of cisgender role in trans organizing, and allies.  POC issue is analogous, hot issue.  Making a separatist space, might create a fear of people on the outside of the space, putting up walls. Cisphobia, is some of the reason about Kathryn because she’s cis?

Penelope: no, it was the conversion.

Raven: cops not needed. We could have taken the road. Reverend was not inclusive, who is given space to speak.  What could be different?  What they did, Winnipeg, live acts in between speakers, they had a projector with a slide, on repeat.  They had more details. They had a parent come and talk about her experience, a young person, trans in high school, trans women’s drum group.  Support workers speaking.  Snacks.

Beth: Spend time looking at other TDoRs for research.

Tash: Security Guards talking to the police, weird power dynamic.

Kat: I submitted a ….. to officers. I had a chance to speak to them before the event. Honestly they could have been a little bit ignorant talking to security guards.

Telyn: points: meta-points if you will: glad we’re getting to a point where we can talk about how to do things next year – excusable — I don’t think it’s relevant to talk about if such-and-such is excusable or not — I don’t think that’s relevant. The second thing I noticed -  discussion going all over the place- maybe we should separate those themes into discussion that happen one after the other, so we don’ t get confused.

<procedural discussion about meeting omitted>

Brooke – From the people I’ve talked to, cisphobia seemed to play a factor in why people turned against Kathryn. Beth and Telyn both referred to middle class, why don’t we attack them?

Sam – it wasn’t that she was cis it was context – it made it easier to hear

Raven: could we have an intermission?

INTERMISSION – Raven, Myriam, Véronique leave.

TOPIC: suggestions for how we can do things in the future

Kat – let me talk about why police were involved, why we didn’t take over the street -  we wanted to make sure that GAB youth services can get over to get to the march – the idea was seven o’clock on hastings street the closest thing we have to a downtown highway we couldn’t take over things on the north side they closed down Pigeon Park.  Wheelchairs couldn’t go through the street. We didn’t have the money, we had a budget of 80 and it costs 600 normally to ‘buy’ police officers to come out for an event people were normally be volunteering to get out on

We got a proclamation from the city  – the city doesn’t actually send that piece of paper over – and they wouldn’t let us have a permit unless we liability insurance -it was 135 dollars to have insurance- – suddenly we found ourselves being a legal parade. It wasn’t what we wanted, but part of us having the police officers — the only stipulation they had was that because it was dark, because it’s a thoroughfare, that we should stay on the sidewalk. I’ve talked to Kale of moving it off Hastings next year and wind around through the side streets. We’d be expanding the length of the route and take over the street. We had 100 people show up a really good turnout, especially considering weather. We can use those numbers to help. This this the tenth year this has happened and they had no proof that this event existed..

Beth: Who is Kale?

Kat:  Kale is the events coordinator for Vancouver. Mostly she deals with film and stuff. She donated all the safety vests. She fast-tracked the permit for us.

Telyn – I totally get the we-don’t want-to-get-sued angle – I’ve been a part of a lot of illegal protest marches-  usually no lawsuit would be able to succeed anyway – it’s another strategy, and it’s a strategy that doesn’t require involvement — it’s a strategy you can use if  you don’t want the police involved.

Beth: We’re gender outlaws, that’s how we started this decade.  As  Femininjas, are we aspiring to a higher level of legitimacy, to do that you have to jump through the hoops.  The side effect is that you do violence to the underdogs, we might lose POC and sex workers.

* What legitimacy does the community actually have?

* What level should we affect?

* What level should we aspire to?

Kat – Tami ( I can’t speak for her) has been trying to move this event to a charity rather than a society status. She’s interested in this being more than just a memorial. There was a lot of excitement about including all the campuses.

Sam – I help run a charity. You don’t need a lot of legal stuff insurance etc. to register as a charity

Brooke – 2 things popped into my head. One is that awareness/mindfulness around dropping people can make it less likely. Also you can have an illegitimate guerrilla group to help the illegitimate components of the community.

Telyn – to get back to the specifics – the police presence made things less safe

Beth – to get away from specifics — a lot of the issues we’re dealing with boil down to how legit we should be. Space, police, permit, etc.

Sam – people stayed away because of where it was held –  esp. people with addictions.

Gwen – I second Sam’s comment. Last year I couldn’t have walked through that neighbourhood.

Kat – outreach – I wish I could have done more – I did it through Atira, but there was only so much I can do. It was also held at night which is when sex workers often work –

TOPIC: Politicians

Kat: I was coming at this out of the whole Lu’s pharmacy thing. Bill was contacted because I was interested in raising the profile of this issue, that was my perspective. It was hard to get speakers.

Kate: I felt he was there to garner the trans vote. In the context of a memorial, we were just giving him space, I just feel it was a bit like, look how great I am, I have this bill.

Kat: I love that we’re actually talking about this. There’s this amazing case right now asking for the decriminalization of sex work. Maybe they need to be tied together. This is the time to really do the outreach for them. If we could support both. Maybe we could work

Kate: I reacted strongly (was all on board with adding gender identity to human rights code) when he started talking about having SRS covered in all provinces, I was like no because of real life test (not legit if you don’t have a real job)

Sam: In future events, could we have a separate night for politics? Just inappropriate for memorial.

Kat: That’s really cool. Another thing that’s been mentioned by people — people have suggested moving it to the weekend.

Brooke: i like the separate night idea. I don’t think it’s really an issue that he’s a politician, it’s just that he was off-topic.

Kate: Cool

Kat: we could set up a panel for the bill upcoming and we could get more momentum about it. Just the fact that there’s a deadline coming up. Kathryn would like to talk to people. Bill Siksay said similar.

Beth: I’m in for talking to Kathryn.

TOPIC: religious stuff

Beth: <summary of what has been said thus far>

Sam: next speakers need more training background.

Kate: Audience needs to know why she was chosen, or that she was a reverend.

Kat: Will make sure MC does better job next year of introducing.

Brooke:

- obvious: things are due to planning cycle being too short. Start cycle 8-10 months before event, especially if you want permits, outreach, funding for ads, etc

-  the names could be projected on a wall with bios instead of read, this would be less triggering.

- people should be able to handle these things in their own context. If a speaker in their future should be able to handle this in their own context- – she could do this without being censored if she made clear it was in her own

Sam: would be cool if there were people from different traditions could be available and then people could choose the one most available.

Kat: we could use Gallerie Gachet <sp?> next year and there are a number of studios and other places.

Tash: we could have it outdoors instead, lots of people

Kat: Won’t address problem of people being triggered by coming into neighbourhood.

Beth: idea: buffet/food/semi-formal peer-led grief counselling afterwards.

Telyn:  in Montreal the Montreal Massacre December 6  memorial is always big deal, always has food afterwards, always helps. Food and circles help a lot. It does help if people who have had active listening training could wear an active listening badge.

Kat: didn’t happen here for clean up reasons. Didn’t have caterer, didn’t have space.

Sam: w/r/t circles, spaces for people to express grief. That happened organically after. It would be powerful to have that in a thoughtful way.

TOPIC: Cis people in trans space

Beth: two views: cis allies have a place in community and at event, or they don’t.  Reasons to think they have a place include that we don’t want to reverse-discriminate, we don’t want to indulge in cisphobia. Reasons to think they don’t: community events are intended to help build the power of the community, and so there might be a loss to the community if cis allies do lots for us.

Tash: what Brooke was saying, reading someone’s blog about the memorial for the massacre in Ottawa, a man was speaking in the context of being the son of a woman who was being abused. Aaron Webster was killed in… <…> And this was fine. But cis people have more opportunities to speak, they have privilege. TDoR should be about trans voices.

Brooke: but we can speak on these issues too. We have a voice. [Context: Brooke has done multiple radio interviews and guest speaking, esp. on Lu's]

Tash: but it’s like Lu’s pharmacy — they’ll only talk to cis people for example.

Kate: It’s rare that a trans person who can speak without coming off as angry tranny. Trans voices should still be heard most. Cis organizing, ok. But in terms of actually speaking, I’d prefer it to be weighted towards trans.

Beth: ‘voice’ of some cis people addressing trans people at trans event is offensive, but not all cis voices are in themselves offensive.

Telyn: it’s different when you have cis experts on trans for example having Brassard come and speak. Cis people who are in the community in  a personal role is very different from having cis people in an expert role.

Everyone: agreed!